Agnotist says: October 31, 2012 at 1:12 pm
I am a brahmin girl too. I live in US, and was in Canada for a lot of my life. I did like a pakistani guy for a bit. He was broad minded, undergrad in Computer Science, and having a good job.
1. I am a strict vegetarian. In fact after coming to America, Ive adopted veganism. They can’t not eat meat on any given day. It was really hard for me to even see them cutting goat on eid, etc. I was afraid that in the future, I would have to touch meat and cut it, etc.
2. In the later stage of our relationship, he disclosed that his kids would have to be muslim. But I could be what I want.
This was not reasonable to me. I think if your having an inter religious marriage you should be tolerant to your partners beliefs. I wanted my kids to be aware of both hindu and muslim traditions, grow up broad minded, and he as much hindu with my family as they are muslim with his. He couldn’t understand the concept of pluralism.
3. I didn’t think he would be ok with me having a pooja room in my home. For me, it’s important. I’m fine with visiting a mosque, but I also want to visit a temple.
Anyway, my bf was very honest. He didn’t try to manipulate me. He told me the truth in black and white, and asked me to make a decision knowing all the facts. After thinking through it, we decided to split up.
Yes, the 1st few months were horrible. But I feel happy that we split. For the prolonged happiness of 2 people its very imp to retain your individuality and personality. You should not be ever stripped of your identity.
I am as opposed to muslims converting to hinduism for marriage as I am hindus converting to Islam. I think Conversion is a social evil.
Regarding your story:
1. If he is from a conservative family, leave him now. No matter how much he loves you, he always loves his family more. All of us love our family more. And this will influence him when he has to eventually choose your religion and culture over blocking you from following them.
If he is from a broad minded, non religious family, then maybe its fine. But these dont exist unless he’s got a link to bollywood or something 😉
2. As a brahmin (are you tambrahm?), you probably are pure vegetarian. And even if not religious, want to go to the temple on your b’day, diwali, pongal , etc. This is the way we bond too. He might not support you in any of this. It’s not his fault but the difference in culture. Your kids will hardly spend time with your parents, and eventually you will not either.
3. If you still want to be with this guy, do the following.
a) wait till your professionally and financially stable. If things go wrong you will need a safety net. This way you will be a bit older and more mature.
b) Don’t do it till your late 20s. I dont think people are sufficiently un biased and mature at 23. How old are you?
c) I know i shouldnt say this, but I will. PLEASE don’t get tempted or encourage any physical relationship. In plain words, no sexual relationship. Once this happens, all of a sudden the power and dominance is with the guy and not with the girl. This will emotionally and mentally condition you, and will make you want to be with him no matter what, without thinking of the repurcussions.
Always better to be calm, and not too attached before making a decision.
Further info about myself:
I’m 28, currently in a PhD program in US, and have been living in America since 17. Did my schooling in Mumbai and Mysore.
So I am a little mature (so I think 😉 ) and I REALLY don’t believe that love is enough to sustain a marriage. Once frustration crops in, love will go outside of the window.
This said, I am NOT averse to muslims. Lot of my close circle of friends comprise of them. I just believe in accurately clarifying expectations before you decide to marry. And, being firm in your principles, and maintaining your self respect.
Also, this bs that once you fall in love, everything else does not matter is false. You’ll be surprised at how fast feelings change with time.
Also, you’ll be surprised at how many times you’ll appreciate someone and fall in love all your life. The nature of love changes, but it doesn’t go away. Just because I broke up when I was 24, doesn’t mean I’ll be single forever. And, after all these years, we are still good friends 🙂 -Agnostic.
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Admin says:
Dear Agnostic, superb! Excellent thoughts. You are certainly very mature. There are many many deep thoughts and messages here that all interfaith couples should read and learn from it.
You have made an excellent point about SEX WHILE DATING time, “PLEASE don’t get tempted or encourage any physical relationship. In plain words, no sexual relationship. Once this happens, all of a sudden the power and dominance is with the guy and not with the girl.” Similarly, Abida also made an excellent point that “By nature girls are innocent and emotional, whosoever respects them (even falsely), they get trapped. There are so many anti social elements in the society who are disguised as gentlemen but internally conspirator“. We wish all girls pay attention to what you have to say.
On your point, “he disclosed that his KIDS WOULD HAVE TO BE MUSLIM“, a moderate Abrahamic (Muslim, Christian or Jew) may tolerate a Hindu spouse but will not tolerate (even half) Hindu children, why? This is a critical point and needs to be eloborated.
Lets take example of the so called open minded Aamir Khan. Read his interview:
Q: Did you face any religious dilemma while you were married to a Hindu lady Reena Dutta and later on to Kiran Rao?
Aamir Khan replied: No, none whatsoever. We never practiced each other’s religion neither did we force each other to do so. But, of course, I had made it very clear that my kids will always follow only Islamic religion.”
What does Aamir means by “my” kids? Are they not kids by “both” parents? Giving sperm is more important than carrying the baby for 9 months? Is Aamir Khan a Male chuvinist or an intolerant Muslim?
Abrahamic (Christians, Jews and Muslims) faiths’ fundamental teaching is not to tolerate “other” gods and be intolerant to believers in other faiths. This idea is originated in the 2nd of The Ten Commandments where the “jealous” LORD God stated that if you pray to “other” gods He will punish you to three to four Generations. Later, Peter and Paul perfected these teachings in the Bible and Muhammad in the Koran. That is why Christians killed millions in their Crusades and Muslims killed many people over years. The Hollocaust and 9-11 are all result of this “exclusivist” and intolerant thinking.
Today, a Catholic may not tolerate Protestant and a Shia may not tolerate Sunni for marriage. There will be major legal fight over Bris and Baptism of a child because a Jew cannot tolerate a Catholic in married life.
These Abrahamics are supposed to be monotheist, exclusivist and supremacist. If they are not and wish to tolerate a Hindu in their married life, they are not true Abrahamics. These Monotheist exclusivists have learned that “there is only one God and THAT IS MINE!” and thus they cannot understand the pluralism. If your intended spouse is not a pluralist, a deeper trouble coming later in your married life.
This world will be a better place to live when all Abrahamics will learn pluralism. Most European Christians are now pluralist and we are hopeful soon Muslims will also learn that.
If you want to understand the mentality of Aamir Khan (who likes Hindu wives but cannot tolerate Hindu children), read all these articles:
One God, Allah
Bible on Hindus?
Jealous and angry God
Koran on Hindus?
Can Allah be the Father God?
Hindus, Abrahamics and Intolerants
Idol-worshippers: Who is and who is not
I want to be Baptized…
Bar Mitzvah for Hindus?
The most important question any interfaith couple should ask is “What if I say NO BBS?” -Admin.
Be a friend on Facebook. Return to InterfaithShaadi.org. To share your experience, read.
Muslim-Sikh: His parents wont accept me without conversion
Agnotist,
Considering you have great analytical mind and critical thinking skills, we would like to give you an assignment to write an article. We will publish it here, in our future book and also you could publish it other places.
It will be on Aamir Khan, a story similar to that we wrote for Saif and Kareena. Do complete research on his background, his “so called” open mind but who cannot tolerate a Hindu children, his half-pluralist thinking, his past marriage/divorce/Muslim kids, current marriage, compare him to SRK, your own life experience, your definition of interfaith marriage with equality and what ever else you want to say.
Take about 3-4 months and send us the draft. It should be good project to take, you will enjoy it.
Admin, u mentioned a fake news on Aamir Khan in this post. Many Indian news have verified this allegations and dismissed it as fake propoganda against Aamir, u should also remove it as it could be a legal problem for u as ur post is mentioning a false allegation against a very famous personality, Aamir Khan never said this that my children will be Muslim only
So, i advise u to remove this fake propoganda against a famous movie star or else u will be in legal trouble
Thanks
Admin, here u mentioned a fake news on Aamir Khan, Aamir never said that his children will be Muslim only, many Indian news have verified this allegations and dismissed it as fake, so i suggest u to remove this or else u will be in legal trouble for false allegation against a popular movie star
Please remove this false allegation
Thanks
Respected Srinivas,
First I admire your knowledge and analysis of Quraan. I accept all what you have said but would like to clarify what I meant by my postings so that Muslim girls may have a better future. I may seem to be a feminist as I empathise with them. In reality though, I am just a hindu, wishing good for everybody.
I use the word ‘Allah’ as a synonym to the God who is at least non-partisan and above all, compassionate in true senses. Allah is pre-Quraanic hence any negative attributes in Quraan is the creation of Muhammad. Everybody is free to invent the attributes of Allah as long as Allah is kept the God not a monster/devil. Demonising Allah is the act of Shaitan in Quraan. Keep yourself away from Shaitan.
Don’t be mistaken when Allah orders the Muslims to obey Muhammad blindly. It is Muhammad who is enjoining you in the name of Allah! Muhammad is acting as middleman/broker between the Muslims and the Allah. Obeying Muhammad blindly is tantamount to worshipping him which is shirk, the highest sin.
Today, there is multi tiered brokers in Islam: first broker is Muhammad, second are the Mullah/Maulavis and the third are the Terrorists (the warriors of Muhammad).
In short, Muslims should follow the duped Quraan with open mind and reject the irrational teachings (there are Shaitanic verses). Discard the Hadiths altogether to avoid many oppressive customs/practices. In fact Hadiths are nothing by Arabian cultural imperialistic tool.
I fully agree that today’s Muslims consider Muhammad greater than Allah! I request all the Muslims to cut short the Shahada to only first part i.e. ” La ilaha Allaha”. Nothing beyond it.
Present Islam has oppressed the Women most. Second are the Kafirs and the other splinter groups of Islam who tried to deviate from the command that Muhammad was the last Rasool.
mohammad was an ordinary illiterate person living in the 6th centuary who was brain washed by satan disguised as a false angel. The religion of islam is fake and it has been instigated by the devil to confuse mankind, so that the devil can try to hide the true god from the people of the earth. Muslims falsely believe in allah who was an idol and a representative of the middle east people in the sixth centuary. Therefore, in reality Allah is a false god and the messanger mohammad is a puppet of the devil. All muslims are satan worshippers,Who are fed false lies by the mullahs in the mosque to cover the truth. If you can, And i believe you can online, translate the devils book knoen as the koran, then you will be toally shock by what is written in it. 95% of the writtings in the koran are of hatred, lust, murder, revenge and poisonous statements to other religions of the world. Over 50% of non muslims are already aware of the above facts. The other 50% of non muslims need to do the research as soon as possible. Then spread and share your new knowledge with your near and dear ones, family, friends, cousins, aquaintences and any one else who is not aware of this satan’s book that will listen to you. Nearly 35% of muslims also know and are aware of the above facts, but are too frightened to speak against the religion because of personal safty, therfore please be very careful who you talk to. Only talk with people or persons who you trust 101%. Do the research and find out yourself online so that you do not have to live in iggnorence. May god bless, hindus, christians, sikhs, jewish, buddists, jains and other minor religous people, as they are al peaceful religions except islam.
Sat shri akal every body.
Hi every one,
See the following Text against women in islam:Muhammad’s Own Words
Prophet of Doom was written to expose what Islam’s founder had to say about himself, his ambition, religion, and god. Before you use or criticize these quotes, please read this overview from the author. For those who are serious about the study of Islam, be sure to read the source material appendix, entitled Islam’s Dark Past.
Women
Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”
Qur’an 4:3 “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth).”
Qur’an 4:11 “Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”
Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”
Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’”
Qur’an 2:282 “And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women [a man is worth two women, and one man is always needed], such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her.”
Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted – worse than dirt.]
Bukhari:V4B55N547 “The Prophet said, ‘But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.’”
Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”
Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”
Bukhari:V4B52N143 V5B59N523 “When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah’s Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N524 “The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet’s wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?’”
Ishaq:593 “From the captives of Hunayn, Allah’s Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another.”
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”
Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”
Qur’an 24:31 “Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands…”
Qur’an 24:34 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here’s the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”
Ishaq:469 “The Apostle said, ‘Every wailing woman lies except those who wept for Sa’d.’”
Tabari VIII:62
Ishaq:496 “Ali [Muhammad’s adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.’”
Ishaq:496 “Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.’”
Qur’an 24:1 “(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”
Qur’an 24:6 “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.”
Respond
Power of knowledge will prove the last nail of the coffin of the ideology of Muhammad. Just we need to spread it. Most of the people don’t know the facts about Muhammad’s lofe and his oppressive ideology against women in general and the Muslim women in particular. Every Muslim woman must do somthing to eradicate the malpractices such as Burqa, circumcision, polygamy, marrying with older males, marrying cousins, to name a few. Most importantly, the myth that Muhammad was a saintly person. This will bring about the change.
dear priya
u avoid that zombie , muslims are very dangerous and intolerant , u may love the boy belonging to western culture , do not trust on these muslims these are liars , brainless and butchers , u should read the article of ex-muslim dr ali sina article
http://alisina.org/2012/03/24/love-is-not-enough/
http://alisina.org/2011/01/18/married-to-a-muslim/
and this one
http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/islamic-jihad-articles/why-muslims-are-so-inclined-to-seduce-rape-and-marry-non-muslim-girls/
No slavery (gulami) anymore to the outdated barbaric customes such as circumcision. All educated womenfolk should think that circumcision is just an oppressive custom on Muslim babies/children as many practices on the women. You all should be determined to no to circumcise your children unless they attain the age of maturity, preferably after marriage. This is an issue that affects the wife of your child. Hence, it should be decided by the married couple. So, must stop this oppression of your child and don’t allow it where ever you can as it’s nowhere mentioned in Quraan. It has imported and thrust upon to the civilized world and though it has lost its ground in the whole non-Islamic world, it still exists among the Muslims/Jews.
Breath in fresh air. It’s time to say no to burqa/Niqab altogether to save yourself from suffocation. Raise your voice where ever you can – in your/relative’s family, in schools, hospitals, buses/trains, marriage parties or other gatherings.
Be your own Maulavi/Mullah. Allah has given intellect to everybody including Muslim women. Then why this dependence on Male Mullahs and Maulavis? You can have female Maulavis/Mullahs who don’t need to be certified by the Male Maulvis. Believe in Allah, but never in Muhammad’s words. Accept the good things of Quraan but not everything of it. The irrational things must be discarded.
It looks like you stand for some kind of reformation in Islam.
Best of Luck
Thanks. Yup my purpose is to metamorhose it into a rational lifestyle through a smooth and seamless transformational path, so far unknown to Muhammad’s warriors.
I am not sure what you mean when you say many things, especially when you use strong words against Mohammad.
Muslims might take offense to abusing Allah but never they tolerate any abusive words towards Mohammad.
So, you can forget about reforming Islam through your means.
But you confuse people here. Suppose a Hindu girl wanting to marry a Muslim guy or a Hindu guy wanting to marry a Muslim girl reads what you write……what would be their reaction, you think?
They think that what you write is another version of Islam and there is nothing inherently danger in it and they might go ahead with those marriages, with or with out conversions.
You are actually giving an impression which is totally wrong, I will give you benefit of doubt, because only an informed one can understand what you write.
The way I understood is you are simply asking Muslims to quit Islam.
Your observations are worth consideration.
All the best to Ma’m, not just Ma’m, to my sister for future.
Huh….
Courageous girl who has not let emotions ruin her life.
There is no need for any Hindu girl to convert to Islam, as she serves the purpose of Islam when her kids grow up as Muslims.
Now she says she is not averse to Muslims.
But I am totally averse to Muslims and Islam because I am rational, logical and humane.
When one has read Koran (along with Tafsir), Hadith, Sira and Sharia Law, and when one has read the actual history of Islamic conquests in the name of Jihad and Islam’s treatment of Hindus (or Non-Muslims)and when one looks around the present day world, esp. about how all Muslim majority nations treat Non-Muslims, only irrational people feel not averse towards Islam and its adherents.
agnostic,
Superb! Excellent thoughts. You are certainly very mature. There are many many deep thoughts and messages here that all interfaith couples should read and learn from it.
We wish you be a routine consultants helping other young adults on this web site to define Interfaith Marriage with Equality.
Tell you something? Muslims are not suppose to even look at other religion women as you and i are kafir, they are not suppose to go to temple, or have any idol, even they shouldn’t be buying from non Muslims. Plus They must convert the non muslim partner to islam, as per there islam, in short he was looking to convert you.
Do you think these guys say that at the beginning, no coz else you know what they want. Imagine what they do when the girl is muslim and guy is hindu or other faith. They would, as per there religion kill there girl. You are brave and got yourself out of the trouble, hats off to your intelligence.
BTW i m married to a muslim girl, only she and i know what hell Muslims created for stopping our marriage, she is still a muslim, and i still a hindu. But i donno if you have ever been to city center in Michigan, you would be shocked to know what these idiots are upto there. But we kafirs are way too tolerant towards them,( assuming how tolerant they are for our religion)